Blended wood layups. It works for so many companies, why doesn't Sonor try it?

[Jules]

Gretsch has always used blended wood shells. Pearl now has a shell layup that is seemingly based on the USA Custom shell. Other companies have also offered blended shell layups over many years. I wonder why Sonor has been steadfast in staying with single wood types for its upper end drums.

Sonor's Force 3003 was mixed maple and basswood 9 plies total

When the Force 3005 was released, they dropped the basswood in favor of a 9 ply Maple shell.

I remember people commenting that they liked the sound of the maple/basswood/maple shell better than the newer all maple. I personally wondered if Sonor was struggling against companies marketing "All Maple Shells" which would give the impression that blended shells were inferior. In my research I have found that only lower to midline drums series used basswood at all, which does seem to make it plausible that the basswood would create a stigma with potential buyers.

But, in reality, I think the hybrid design offered a blend of warmth and low-end fullness from the basswood, paired with clarity and attack from the maple—giving the 3003 its characteristic balanced tonal response.

If Sonor offered the ability to pick the wood types for each of the 3 ply layers, would you try something new (to Sonor) or would you stick with the tried and true?

[krusher74]

Sonor have never been one to go down the "gimmick" new item lane. I think the did all the science testing needed in the 80/90's and no there is no where to go.
I very much struggle to tell the difference in sound on the drum center of portsmouth video demoing the different sonor wood/shell options using good headphones and doing a closed eye listen
I own a maple hi-lite kit and bought a orphan light birch signature tom just to hear that "signature" sound. With the same heads fitted (aquarian studio x) I have that signature tom currently in my set and forget it's even a tom from a different range. it doe not sound noticeably different.

Sonor started building drums with beech because it was a local wood to them, it was never a tome wood choice, they only started making the maple hilite to satisfy the public that had now been sold on maple drums. If you look on the janka wood hardness rating beech birch and maple are in the same close range, if you were going to choose a differant wood you would need to go somwhere like Brandy did with their wood choice, but they were even because it was local Aussie wood to an aussie drum company.

Poplar and woods like that are using purely on price, and it pretty easy to see that putting one ply of maple in there is just a sale ploy to make people tell themselves they are just buying a maple set.

I think Sonor simple know layering different "tone woods" if mostly just marketing of something that cant really be heard, and thats not what they are about.
The way Sonor have been dribbling out new products and the lack of anything that could not be designed on the configurator in an hour for the 150th makes me think there whole design and marketing devison is one guy with a part time job.

" I think the hybrid design offered a blend of warmth and low-end fullness from the basswood, paired with clarity and attack from the maple"
Do you really believe that? I thought they told us birch has attack and maple has low end?

When all these companies put out their latest hybrid shell video, (latest i know of being the DW shell with one ply of aluminum inside the wood) when to they ever A/B the sound difference compared to the shells they already offer. Sonor dont even offer any audio files on the configurator so you can hear the option and choose.

As to your question, would i pick a hybrid ply sonor shell if offered, i honestly dont know what i would pick out of the beech/birch/maple/acrylic, light/med/ heavy and vintage options as there is nothing i have heard to sway my decision.

" I think the hybrid design offered a blend of warmth and low-end fullness from the basswood, paired with clarity and attack from the maple" Have you really ever heard any of this?

[Jules]

Note: This entire reply is intended with total respect. I can agree to disagree.

I very much struggle to tell the difference in sound on the drum center of portsmouth video demoing the different sonor wood/shell options using good headphones and doing a closed eye listen

I think that is very telling, as I can certainly discern the differences in that video. They weren't subtle, either. I went in there fully expecting to favor the medium beech shelled drums. I firmly believe that if there wasn't a marked difference, I would have leaned toward what I wanted to hear. Instead the Heavy Birch was far and away my choice. So much so, that I cancelled (with a hefty restocking fee) a Medium Beech set that I had ordered from Sweetwater (48 month financing).

I mean this very respectfully, but if you can't detect variations in sound from the different shell types, then you are obviously going to be dismissive about blended word shells, and the like.

As to whether or not I hear the difference in the Force 3003 and 3005 shells; I never did a direct A/B comparison, but had owned both at different times and yes, I would assert that the basswood in the shells afforded even more pronounced low end in the drums. That's also why basswood was chosen for the quite inexpensive Phil Rudd Signature shell set, over something like poplar.

Gretsch USA Customs have such a distinct sound that Pearl is offering something on the same order. I don't think it's gimmicky at all to recognize that different shell layups respond differently. I'll go a step further; I think this is the worst possible time in the history of manufacturing to try to fool anybody, and yet many drum manufacturers are utilizing multiple shell wood types to achieve particular tone signatures.

[krusher74]

Its quite possible by hearing may be poor, i'm certainly not deaf from playing drums or anything like that, but i am very poor at tuning by ear, my ears or my brain get "tired" very quickly trying to hear pitch difference.
I wish like in the old Sonor adds of the 80's they would get the old oscilloscope out and simple show all the extra lows or highs, instead of just using stupid words to try to describe them.
I remember a video on drumeo where they played some drums blind and they had to guess the shell type and not a single one of them got anything right.
Maybe an interesting poll to add to this thread would be , "Do you think between beech/birch and maple you can hear A: A distinct difference. B: A subtle difference C:hardly any difference at all.

[Jules]

In a hoop comparison video I am going to do in the next few weeks, I’m not gonna tell which set of hoops was which. Those results won’t come out until the next week.

I’ve suggested to Shane before that they withhold what you’re hearing until after you hear it in some of their videos

[Jack]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F3-2-jPTsUI&t=101s

Any guesses?

[James Fullier III]

As to whether or not I hear the difference in the Force 3003 and 3005 shells; I never did a direct A/B comparison, but had owned both at different times and yes, I would assert that the basswood in the shells afforded even more pronounced low end in the drums.

Keep in mind the 2001/2003 and 3001/3003 shells were the only drums coming out of Asia that were built exactly like the German shells except for undersizing. The German shells have always been majority vertical plies so you always have 2 plies running together vertical for every one horizontal. Sonor never talks about this possibly because they like to keep it secret but that is a big part of their sound IMO.

Anyway.. I also like the blended shells better than the exacts same species for all the plies but in this case the construction of the shell on the 3003 might also be a factor in the drum sounding better plus more low end than the 3005 which was just a conventional khs shell with one horizontal ply to one vertical ply.

Sometimes I wonder if Juan Good from DW was inspecting Sonor shells in the 80's and 90's for him to come up with his idea to have different shells with different ply orientation. I mean.. what else was he looking at ?? He was defintely staring at Sonor drums to get his idea to use the more unique woods for his drums exteriors and then once in a while he puts out a set with inside veneer.